TDB 4 The Conversions of Jeff Cavins and Dr. Joseph Johnson

In this episode, we analyze the conversion testimonies of Jeff Cavins, former nondenominational pastor who reverted back to Roman Catholicism, and Dr. Joseph Johnson, a former Presbyterian minister. Both men related a dramatic experience with the Eucharist, each thinking that he had encountered an ancient apostolic truth. Neither realized that the “ancient apostolic” liturgy he encountered was actually a novelty of the latter part of the fourth century, and some of the “ancient” practices Jeff Cavins rediscovered actually originated in the 5th and 11th centuries. In both cases, they thought they were returning to the teachings of the early church fathers, and believed that by becoming Roman Catholics, they were finally “deep in history.” As we point out in this episode, both were still quite shallow in their knowledge of history—which is a prerequisite for converting to Rome.